Re: >H Uploading vs. Consciousness

[Henri Kluytmans <hkl@stack.nl>]

Transhuman Mailing List

>Henri Kluytmans wrote:
>> I consider the survival of an uploaded copy of me that behaves
>> something like 99.999% the same as I would, sufficient survival 
>> of my (information) identity.
>> 
>> For people who are against direct uploading because of emotional
>> reasons there remains the method of gradual uploading (neuron 
>> by neuron replacement).
>> 
>> But in fact it doesn't matter in which substrate your thought
>> processes
>> run, as long as the thought processes behave the same. Be it in an
>> biological neural network or an artificial neural network or any
>> digital emulation of it.


Alex Janzer wrote:
>You could be right - if you and your identity are nothing more than
>your neuron interactivity.

Indeed, that is what is assumed.

>The important thing you forgot is your consciousness. 

No, I didn't. I consider consciousness just another mental 
aspect (i.e. a thought process that runs in the neural 
network of the brain).  

>Are you sure that your simulated copy would be aware of itself 
>as you are? Or more exactly: Do you think, YOU would be aware 
>of yourself after uploading or would you die and create a new 
>life form that would have your neuron activity.

That all mental aspects emerge from the neural network of the 
brain seems the only plausible explanation. Artificial neural 
networks are nowadays being used for pattern recognition. The mind 
itself seems to be hierarchy of pattern recognizers (or a society 
of agents). 
It seems very likely that the complexity of the human brain only 
emerges from the behavior of a neural network of a hundred billion 
neurons. There is no proof for it _yet_, but there are very strong 
indications. (And when uploading will become feasible there 
finally _will be proof_ )

But ask the people who know most about the physical construction 
of the brain : neuro-biologists  (like Anders Sandberg :->)


>I think it's similar with cloning: you can create another person
>with the same (in this case DNA-) information in him but it still
>wouldn't you, even if it was an exact copy of you.

No, this completely different. Cloning is just creating an (younger) 
identical twin. This is technically so easy that it already happens
spontaneously in nature. And you know from twins that they develop 
completely different identities.

>On the other hand, we're always changing: old cells die, new cells 
>are built etc, and we have an almost new body after several months. 
>It MAY be possible to keep your consciousness by gradual uploading. 
>But then again, it could be a gradual loss of consciousness, too.

Either the emulations of the neurons are good and the upload 
will function exactly the same. Or the emulations are not good, 
and that will mean a gradual loss of _ALL_ MENTAL CAPABILITIES.

But of course, upload experiments (first with lower animals) will 
show if the emulations are good enough long before they will be 
tried on any humans.



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